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Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 11:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 06/06/2011 11:29:46 Hello, my name is, well you know my name. So lets get to the point. Im interested in the stocks and dividends side of the EVE trade scene. Im a successful trader already but im looking to expand my operations outside of the region I currently trade in. What I trade in can swallow my entire bankroll. Im trading in a volume now that can take a week to fill. Granted im not buying one item at a time. I usually have minimums on orders but even if I buy 1 at a time it still takes me a 4-5 days on average to fill. If I could expand my operations obviously I can monopolize the market to a greater degree & eventually reap in more profit than I can currently. It would also allow me more time trading and I feel as though I can handle the additional responsibility. My current setup is minimal work and I spend alot of time doing level 4s. I'd prefer a little less missioning. What you are investing in should you choose to is my ability to win the .01 wars. I do it whenever I decide to trade. I'm self employed and work from home so my time is free to do as I please. If you have ever been in a .01 war and thought you were against a bot, you probably weren't. There are players like myself who watch their orders down to the minute. Obviously this can monopolize your time which is why I deal in select markets and keep diversity minimized when possible. Sure, you can spread your risk around by being diverse, but you also spread your time around as well as stack on the responsibility. I believe many scams have probably started off as legit ventures but the person attempting to make it work ends up overwhelmed. Given the anonymous nature of the net it makes walking away with the money that much easier. In EVE there is risk. You have to learn to minimize it. Some of the bonds I see wouldn't be worth the risk if the interest payment was 100%. The initial investment is often at a level where one could play and live comfortable in EVE as a pvper for the remainder of their EVE life with just a casual mission or game interaction. Quite honestly the .05% chance the deal is a scam might as well be 99% for all intents and purposes. I'm well aware of how risk averse the population is. I'm the same way. So I had to figure out a way to approach the investment scene with a plan that people can live with, myself included. I'd also like the opportunity to help less than wealthy individuals enter into the investor market without alot of risk. It serves two goals. I get the satisfaction of running a mutual fund of sorts and play around with the shares and dividends side of the game and perhaps make some friends along the way. Im not the most social individual, im a self sufficient loaner so any passive help in that area is a benefit to me. I want to create, say 1,000,000 shares. I want to sell them for 1000 ISk each. Im going to invest my personal money to buy 51% to maintain control of the corp and i'd like to sell the rest to the public. That totals 1 billion isk which is in realistic terms enough to make working in a second region worth the effort. Im not going to promise a set % per share because the market can be faster or slower in a week. And while my current assets allow me to cover this entire amount a few times over i'd rather not have to explain why x% wasn't made this week. So instead what i'd like to do is in the corporation charter have it where for every 100 million profit, 50 million is put into the investment fund and 50 million is paid out in dividends. That means over time larger investment capabilities which will lead to larger/faster dividends paid out. No one works for free thats why obviously im going to buy 51%. I am making money out of this but I am doing the work. The invester merely has to wait for his dividends. Over time with regular payouts the value of the stock will rise and through word of mouth a credible stock can be bought and traded. If the person should want to sell the stocks back I think a 90% buyback would be fair. Meaning if the current sell price of the stock is 1000 you can sell them at anytime back to the company for 900. That covers any fees that may or not be present (if the corps money is tied up, liquidating for the buyback) and just in general prevents people from doing a two day investment wasting my time and the funds in general.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 11:22:00 - [2] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 06/06/2011 11:31:24 When the investment fund grows enough to warrant an expansion or just in general should I come across a lucrative option and selling more shares sounds like a good idea, a vote will be called and a mail will be sent to all shareholders with an explanation, a projected outcome regarding the opportunity, as well as any other significant information that would bring light to the situation. I, as the 51% shareholder will abstain from voting. Meaning only the shareholders will decide whether creating more shares is in the companies best interest. Those shareholders will have first option on buying the new shares before they go public. Now this is in the planning stages in so much as the share creation, but should there be an interest I will put things in motion. There is no minimum investment. Buy one or buy many. I do recommend though not to over-invest. Treat it as a social experiment with perks. Yes you'll make more money with a bigger investment but i'd rather have a diverse investment group. It keeps things honest. The more investors, the more the risk is spread and the more likely the ceo (me) is to keep it honest. Making many enemies is far scarier in EVE than making one enemy. Not to mention the word of mouth factor. One investor doesn't have the credibility of 50 investors. I will be creating a new corp with a new name, something more appropriate. The corp will be a 1 man corp, as it keeps me from being wardec'ed through the fault of irresponsible corp members and no one will have access to the corp's fund but me. One person is accountable. Me. Now im a pvp toon, about 2 days away from my eighth pvp focused elite cert so in war time im still able to conduct business. Either through contract hauling as a last ditch effort or through use of a cloak (im 2 days from having elite cloak cert) so there isn't much that's going to hamper the funds ability. If I deem the risk too high (incredibly unlikely) all shares will cash out at 100% of the price paid with an opportunity to reinvest at a later date. Now, im in no rush, I have my own money to make a living with so let's proceed slow and steady. If you have a question or a suggestion post it and i'll do my best to answer it.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 11:25:00 - [3] reserved....
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 11:28:00 - [4] reserved....
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 14:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Tom Hagen So you are looking for 490million.. I can take all shares :-) I am at work and short on time I have a couple of question thou. 1. Would it be ok to use Tutski on some small fact cecking? 2. Do you have a lowball estimate on what one could expect in return? 1a)This wouldn't be a problem. Though currently with this 1 man corp im in, it has no sales records as I use my own personal wallet. The API key im sure will show my personal ability to make money and past transactions but when I create the new corp all transactions will be done through the corporate wallets instead. I would point out that currently I trade for myself. Meaning I don't treat it as a job and just make money when I feel like it. If there is genuine interest in the idea however I would be much more consistent logging in and doing what I do. Essentially as it stands I might trade 3 weeks in a row and then stop for two weeks. So in summary, yes I am more than happy to provide proof of my ability to generate income. I'm not concerned for the most with people learning what I do, because in the end I still have what many people don't have, and that's the ability to monopolize a regions trade of a item through pure control of the highest buy order. I also have the ability to supplement income through planetary interaction (4-5 planets if I wanted) and of course level 4 missions. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself and i'd like to start simple, and perhaps discuss additional ideas with the fund as we go along. 2a)I work with a larger amount so i'd have to do some calculations, it really depends on what item(s) im monopolizing at the time. I try and deal with volume, so instead of making 30k per item I might make 5k per item but sell 30000 of it. Or I may make 1.5 mil per item but only sell 25 of them. I do have the option to sell some items for 50-200 times its cost with losec deliveries. The market is a fluid beast, I don't lose money. I deal in things people use and predominantly quick money. The exact way I go about it varies depending on the current profitability and with what will be in the future my shareholders best interest. What I suffer from at the moment is lack of purpose. When im making money for myself I make what I need and find something else to entertain me. If I had a real purpose in being a pure trader the sky's the limit. 2b)I don't really need 490 million. If there is genuine interest in a large investment fund then I could work with far greater numbers but what im trying to do here is create a fund where the little guy can throw money into it, and not feel like hes gonna ragequit if the guy he doesnt know personally runs off(which isn't my intention). I want people to be able to look at thier wallet and see a stock there and then once a week or so see dividends go out. IDK maybe im part roleplayer and just enjoy the feel of a working stock system. As the fund grows and becomes reputable I assure you for the amount you put in, you will find the percentage worthwhile. 2c)Let me see how much interest there is in the idea and i'll get back to you with a fleshed out profit margin. I will tell you this just half assing for myself I can keep myself playing free. If im trading im making money and a worthwhile amount. If you're looking to make billions overnight, this particular fund isn't inspired by the idea to do so. I'm confident with the right funding I could, but I came to the board with a notion of casual and absolute minimal risk.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 14:18:00 - [6] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 06/06/2011 14:26:33 Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 06/06/2011 13:50:55 what I read: Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Im a successful trader already but im looking to expand my operations outside of the religion I currently trade in. stop using names that screw with my mental context! I have alot of debates online over religion, and when you quoted it as such I had to check my original post and make sure I didn't subconciously spell it that way. Now you're messing with my mental context!
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 15:34:00 - [7] Originally by: Coty Vote me in. Please remember i am a newer player with a smaller wallet, but i would love to be included in this. smaller wallet means less i have to lose, so im not as concerned with some factors that may turn others away. please evemail me when ready Noted.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.06 23:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Tom Hagen I get the feeling you really want your shares widespread among the Eve population :-) Since it is your shares I wont complain about it. When everyone have got there shares and you have reached a number that you are satisfied with just sign me up for the rest so you get this one filled. I just like the idea of having ISK trickle in on my account every month.. Sure thing. Tom I appreciate your willingness to invest in my idea, I genuinely do. I know the 490 mil is probably a drop in the bucket for you and you love investing. The idea of it, like me. This will be as much an experiment as a business opportunity and that's why I want absolute casual investment. I want the investor to see a stock in his wallet & the mail of a dividend payout. I don't want to have to reassure an investor that if im pvping or doing something on my own that their investment is still sound everyday I log in. When you have hundreds of millions or billions of one persons ISK the natural tendency heads that way. I want investments where people can basically forget about it on the day to day and have a "neato" effect when a dividend pays out. Honestly i'd love to see a working stock exchange in EVE but its seriously limited by the fact nothing is enforceable to a large degree. So understanding that, to effectively start a stock exchange from the ground floor and have it eventually populate with stocks that are worth investing in one has to find a way to set a standard of building mutually low risk, low commitment investment options. Optimally this would catch on and you'd have thousands of traders selling cheap stocks. Those stocks that perform would be known and would command a higher price. Now, trading does require, in my opinion, a fair amount of ISK to invest to be worth the legwork. So low share cost, high share count, spread over many investors seems the best route for raising it with that gameplan in mind. If I were to die in real life a month from now and never logged in again the stock could be written off by each investor as good fun if nothing else. The downside to this approach is each individual investment you may dabble in won't be a get rich quick scheme. It'll be a small passive income, that may or may not evolve into a "fortune 500" type of deal. Weigh it against what you really believe your chances of investing billions of ISK into a player whom you do not know personally and having them make you rich or even for that matter not scamming you completely.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.07 00:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Xinlisupreme Edited by: Xinlisupreme on 06/06/2011 23:06:50 This looks pretty cool. I'm a starting trader doing pretty well. Mostly high sec because low sec still feels scary although I probably use the same methods you do. (For all I know I'd be trading against my own shares!) Anyway, when I found this forum I started getting interested in the business world of EVE and this seems like a nice way to see how things work in the game. Sign me up for 10.000 shares. How would I go about giving you the money? I'll contact you when i've got everything setup as I want it. Anyone who wants an opportunity to invest will have one. The fund becoming active isn't dependant on selling all the shares just a matter of me setting up the corp, voting to create the initial shares and then sending out emails for notification. Im on a large portion of the day (depending on my mood) but once we get going when you recieve the evemail you can send the ISK to this character and should I not be on (not sure if you can send money to me if im offline) i'll send the shares out as soon as log on. If and when you do send the ISK send a evemail as well letting me know you did. It will make tracking things alot easier as I could avoid having to scan through my wallet details. Don't send the ISK until I contact you though. Im not prepared at the moment to begin, and this can be considered the brainstorming portion of it. Im about to crash so when I get up and log on i'll get my ducks in a row and figure out what I need to get setup. I'll keep the thread updated, and we'll go from there.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:16:00 - [10] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 07/06/2011 16:19:21 Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 07/06/2011 16:16:36 Originally by: Strrog Greetings Caliph, It looks like a progressive fund :). Lets see if I understood you right on the way the fund works: we buy shares you do business ( which kind we need to expand on that ) the profit will be split in two ways, 1 it will be pay out in interest payment to investors/shareholders ( dividends), the second part will go to the growth of the fund? The questions that's most of interest to me is what you up to in terms of business plan ? PS. I am new to the shares/corp thing, would like some tips. And will it be considered non-collateral investment? thank you 1a) Precisely. Instead of the fund claiming to borrow 100 billion from investors and offer a 15% interest rate after "X" days (15% yeah we wish) it will payout based on the actual profit the fund makes. So for every, say 100 million in profit, half would go back into the fund itself and the other half would be distributed through the shares system. Once the fund became large enough through its 50% self-reinvestment charter that (re-investment) percentage could be lowered to allow for greater than 50% profit to dividends. The exact number I don't know but there will come a point where its buying power should be great enough to make expanding it at a 50% rate unnecessary. That I suppose would be up to the investors. 2a)The business plan at this point in the venture is hard for the type of trader I am to really say exactly. There's quite a few types of trade. -invest long term in minerals/trade goods and make profit through retail. -buy something in one region and sell it in another through buy orders or at a retail level (instant or delayed). -supply low cost useful items to losec stations at greatly inflated prices (Risk involved but steady income). -a myriad of other possibilities in EVE research & industry. 2b)Nailing down 1 precise plan in my opinion is why alot of ventures go bad. If someone wants to borrow X-amount to buy a blueprint to sell copies, promises x% interest only to find out that no one lost a large quantity of this or that or another competitor decided to do the same thing he's forced to default on the promised interest. This leaves the trader/entrepeneur in a difficult scenario. The failure to meet expectations will in many cases see their credibility damaged by word of mouth. Even if it's not particularly spiteful when it happens its still there. If Schmotrader's deal turned bad but not dishonest their still going to have problems getting future investors. People want success and have zero sympathy for failure. If something catastrophic goes wrong who takes the loss? Should the trader or should the investor? Both knew of the risk but the way it plays out is the trader should refund everyone thereby removing all risk from investing. That system is hard to navigate. Many at this point choose option B which is to understand you're going to be trolled for lack of success and just keep what you managed to borrow or what's left. 2c)The business plan is to do what I do best. Take the capital find the exploitable trade option and make it work. Its the only guarenteed profit system as it has the flexibility to adapt to the market. Besides that if I laid out my every move it could cost the fund great heaps of profit as there is nothing stopping a non-investor or for that matter a spy from stealing the information and doing it themselves. Counter-productive.

Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.07 16:25:00 - [11] The point to this structure is to make it cheap enough that someone can with no worries invest in this character Caliph Muhammed as a profit making trader. Instead of investing in any 1 particular idea you are investing in my ability to find the exploitable market and take advantage of that knowledge.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.07 18:05:00 - [12] Im putting together a plan at present that will provide a more substantive appeal to the fund. Something tangible to go along with the market. Ill elaborate further, later, after i've done some research in game.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.07 19:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 07/06/2011 19:34:39 Originally by: Roguehalo Anybody who talks about 'working a second region' has no clue how trading works. This is about as scammy as it gets. If I buy in A and sell to C would expanding into B not make sense? Anyway, the simple solution if you find it unacceptable is don't invest.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.09 10:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 09/06/2011 10:57:23 I spent some time yesterday scouting a good region for planetary interaction. I setup 4 planets that will begin harvesting and stockpiling the resources. I chose resources with buy orders for 3+ each and and will be selling them for 2 each. They might not sell overnight but they will sell. This will be included as part of an industrial base for the fund. Essentially they are the gold backing of the corps dollar. I know demand and the net value of PI is lackluster overall but it will be a steady stream of income to go along with the trading. Ive got a few things im training atm for my falcon/rook but I have intentions on unlocking the full 6 planets. That will increase the base even further. More to come.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.09 13:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Shawnclay I would like to consider making a moderate investment in this. How many shares would you sell to any one player if there are any left? What is the current price? Is your total fund based on Planet Resource production? How long does the money stay invested before your investors can cash out? How often are we updated on the value of our shares? We're still in the brainstorming portion at the moment. No shares have been sold as of yet, though some have reserved orders. Planetary Interaction will not be the focus of the fund. Trading will be. The planets are a passive stream of income i'm adding into the funds resources to help solidy the value of the stock. So basically should the trading be slow in a given week there is still progress towards the next dividend payout. It's easy enuff to do, requires a few minutes per day, and gives a industrial backbone or sorts to the fund. How many shares will an individual be allowed to purchase? Well i'll always buy up 51%. So the remaining 49% will be available to the public. I haven't decided as of yet on whether offering a maximum to each investor in the IPO is the way to go or not. I may initially put a hardcap to create a more diverse investment group but ultimately nothing would stop 1 individual from privately buying out others. The plan is to take the pooled resources and exploit my trading talent on the market. Once 100 million is made in profit a dividend payment of 50 million goes out to the shareholders and 50 million goes back into the fund to increase it's trading power (1 billion profit would be 500 million to dividends). I covered this in some earlier posts and before the first share is sold i'll set in stone how best its done. Cashing out. The fund will always offer 90% buyback of the original price on shares. This covers any expenses in doing so and prevents 2 day investments. The fund will never cash out in the sense all total funds will be distributed to the shareholders. It will be a continuous and hopefully evergrowing stream of revenue. Your shares value will increase based on the total profit acquired through dividends versus the cost of the shares you bought. 1mil shares x 1000 = 1 billion. As the fund matures, pays dividends and grows in equity the fund may be 1mil shares x 1000 + 5 billion reinvestment profit = 6 billion + isk paidout through dividends. If you're asking could theoretically someone wait for the initial fund of 1 billion total to increase to 50 billion total and then trade the shares in for 49% of that. No. It will never cash out in that fashion. Your initial investment is always available for a 90% cashout plus the isk made through dividend payments. This is investing for long term passive income. The exception to this rule would be me quitting the game (not happening) or for some reason stopping the fund. At which point the total assets of the corp would then be distributed equally through the shareholder mechanism. Now this ties into why a choice has to be made on having a buyback for shares of initial price paid (90%)or basing it on current "practical" value of the share. Define practical as total assets divided by total shares. If you base the share price on 1k each and allow shareholders first chance at future public shares you allow the SH to maintain or increase their % of the company held while keeping the price of the share relatively cheap to invest in. Profit from dividends will be steady in growth as the reinvestment of profit at 50% will allow bigger investment and bigger dividends. Risk is minimal. If you base the share buyback on practical value the buying power of the fund will ebb and flow based on who wants to cashout at that time. The profit and growth will have much larger spikes. One person selling off the shares at the "practical" value in large quantities will cut into the dividends of the remaining shareholders. This can lead to a chain or "run" on the fund.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Command Intelligence Security	Posted - 2011.06.09 13:45:00 - [16] I will update information on our total assets and other errata as often as possible without making it a job. Im one guy and along with actually ensuring the fund increases its profitability and the issues that go along with that I still need time to myself sometimes to pvp and other real life factors.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.10 20:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 10/06/2011 20:26:32 Okay, I set the corp up today. I voted to create the initial shares. I decided to go with a larger amount of shares in the IPO. Ive upped it to 4 million total. I'll be buying 2.1 million of the them which gives the fund before the IPO 2.1 billion in trading assets. Coupled with what shares are sold this gives the fund a very nice trading start. A secondary reason for enlarging the initial IPO was do to the amount of capital many in MD have to risk. One of the investors, Tom, had offered to buy the 49% right off the bat. I want a diverse group but i'd like to be able to handle a slightly larger share purchase in the IPO if people want to invest a little heavier. There will be no minimums, so this changes nothing in that sense outside of making our initial dividends larger and the rate of growth much faster. And in the grand scheme of things many good investments in EVE can swallow a fairly large amount of capital. If i'm going to monopolize something I might as well do it with a bigger profit margin. The bottomline is it's in the best interest of those who make the decision of investing in the fund. A tertiary reason, but never the less important, is it allows me to merge enough of my private trading with the corp/fund wallet to cut down on management and accounting need. Much of what I invest in on behalf of the fund would overlap my personal investments and having to seperate the two is a headache i'd assume avoid. All unsold shares will remain in ownership of the corp/fund wallet. So as the fund goes live ill be buying the 2.1 million shares, lets say 400000 of the 1.9 million remaining are sold. The rest remain under the corp wallet which means dividends that go out for the unsold portion will go right back into the fund. It handles the accounting in a simple and convenient manner. Since my profit will be paid out of dividends as well you can be assured im clicking the button when the threshold for payment is reached. As another insurance to the funds continual progress to the next dividend payment, im going to assign myself a 10% corporate tax. So even if the orders are up and they're filling slowly the fund is still growing if i'm doing missions. As 51% owner I do get 5% of that back upon dividend payment but its a fair trade. Im still saving 6% tax from a NPC corp and it goes along nicely with the planetary interaction to form a small but ever present backbone to the fund.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.10 23:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Migrator Soul I am very interested, and would be willing to buy ten thousand shares, if you are still selling. If you stay true to your word, I will advise my alliance to help you with this or future ventures, enabling you to have the suppport of about threehundred or so other people. Ten million isk is chump change for me, and so, if you honor this, I would be willing to make a significantly higher investment after a few months of good performance. Please send me an evemail in game. Thanks -Migrator Thats fine. There is no minimum investment. The vote takes a day to go through the corp voting process so the shares will be ready tomorrow. I'll contact you via email in game when they are ready and we can go from there.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.11 15:38:00 - [19] Noted. As soon as the vote closes this afternoon i'll send out your shares. Thanks.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:30:00 - [20] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 11/06/2011 21:31:04 Okay preliminary shares have been sent out with 1 exception, to shawnclay as i'm not sure what's going on with his character. Ive saved the chatlogs he says he's quitting the game and to keep the 100mil & instantly leaves private chat amidst a conversation im having with him. He then relogs on and asks for the 100 mil back for another shot at it, and before I have a chance to reply to him he leaves the conversation again. I don't want to yet reveal why he was in distress but atm im unsure of how to handle this. Shawn if you are reading this im not sure if your account has been compromised or not or whether you are making a new toon and want your shares on the new toon or you want a refund but whatever the case get your situation straight and give me a chat.

Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.11 21:48:00 - [21] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 11/06/2011 21:53:15 Originally by: Roguehalo This is so gonna end in tears....... This guy is the most blatant scammer I've seen in many a long day. I know you're begining to wear thin insulting me when you do not know me personally. I want you to know if your goal is to disrupt what i'm doing in game consequences will come, in the same form. I most certainly will troll any offer or idea you present in the future and with your shady corp history/ killboard history pointing you out for a possible scammer would be super easy to do. Now from the research ive done on you thus far reading your anti Osama poem you wrote I know deep down what you are doing is trolling someone you believe to be a muslim. You aren't very intelligent and you believe you are meant to hate an entire people because of your notion 9/11 was carried out by "all muslims". http://www.cnet.com/profile/roguehalo/ Note the hopepage link & the name John Marshall, North Carolina and the link to the homepage http://aurora7.webs.com/johnmarshall.htm By the way your poem stinks. My kids have better wordplay http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Roguehalo&page=1#kills And there is your killboard, woefully bloated with blob kills showing a first appearance earlier than your current toon in game shows existence. Which means your toon has some quirky things going along with it. Now, I know you're from North Carolina and it has one of the greatest military traditions in the united states (which by the way is why the NC veterans administration is the worse, high use) but as for your personal feelings about my name, my religion or any other hatriot bigotry you wish to bring towards me, ** on it. ** on you. You've expressed your view, the fund is moving on without your support. So move on. Unless your goal is to pick a beef with me in which case, running isn't in my protocol.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.11 23:29:00 - [22] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 11/06/2011 23:29:24 Originally by: Roguehalo I think your reply to my post just about confirms things. Any genuine trader wouldn't fly off the handle like you did. Your intrinsic dishonesty is eating away at you m8 :) As for all the "research" you did on me..... If your trading is as bad as your researching(which I suspect it is) then woe betide your investors. The difference between you and me is that I have a track record and you don't. Although obviously your "research" didn't throw up that fact. Then get off my nuts, stop harassing me, and go live up to your trading reputation. Simple. Personally I think your scared I might be successful and give pause to anyone in the future bothering to invest billions of ISK into people who offer the sun, moon and stars with "cred" as collateral.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.12 13:07:00 - [23] Originally by: Maximum Manmeat As a good muslim I am not allowed to charge my faithful brothers interest. I believe this disqualifies me from investment? You aren't charging me interest, you're putting your funds into a pool and recieving your portion of the profit. Instead of 10 of us having to make buy orders and all 10 of us having to go and pick up the purchased items, 1 can. Consider it a carpool of Isk making. Interest would come from a bond of sorts, where your money or rather your profit from interest would come whether I was successful or not. Ideally with a bond you would have collateral and you would keep that should the interest payment not be met. This is why it's forbidden. Only 1 person assumes the risk, 1 person does the work and ultimately in a failure only 1 person assumes the risk.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.12 16:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Strrog After the conversation with Caliph, I have decided to buy the rest of the shares for the total of 1623400000 isk. Confirmed, ISK recieved.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.12 19:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Coty Just for the public record, i have asked for and paid for 1100 shares totaling 1,100,000 isk. And you have recieved them. Check your wallet.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:42:00 - [26] LOL. He asked the ref to stop the fight. I win.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.13 16:55:00 - [27] As a heads up to share holders we're over halfway through our first market order purchase. Hopefully they'll finish today. I've also got a good idea for a future investment. I'll let you guys know when I get the plan laid out.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 03:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 03:07:56 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Thread cleaned of trolling and off-topic posts. You mean you cleaned the thread of those warning the honest and innocent of the high probability or near certainty that the OP is scamming? That is just very... wow. Granted, it got into off-topic, Out of Eve talk on a prejudicial subject that need not dominate these forums, but couldn't we have kept something of that to show how fly off the handle the OP is. (The OP the one who brought up the unneeded topic anyways.) Or are such warnings against CCP policy? Seriously, though, honest or not, the OP and his plan are a bit whack for investment. If this turns out to be legit I wonder if you will feel obliged to apologize for insulting me and trying to tarnish my reputation? Probably not... You confuse "fly off the handle" with "not obliged to endure harassment from teenagers". Im 33 not 13. And your not my kid. Im not your mammy or your pappy. You approach me as a man and insult my character i'm going to tell you precisely how I feel about it.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 03:57:00 - [29] The statement was phrased as such to include his line of thought. I know i'm being trolled here but i'll bite. Here i'll troll you back. If it were a scam its to late for you to cause it to fail. Ive already got a list of investors. The thing is though why would I scam and walk away with billions of isk when I can prove to be a genuine daytrader and with the peoples confidence handle "trillions" (ambitious, granted). If I make friends with the entire new eden by making them money when I need someone "pitch slapped" ill have plenty of people to ask for help. Stealing from people will see me with hundreds of enemies who can all contact people I may be near in game to assassinate me. I want to run the galaxy not flee for my life from it.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 04:15:00 - [30] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 04:17:33 The forum troll, the doubtful thomas, the nihilist eternal twits suffering from "borderline personality disorder" "Projection In this workshop we wanted to talk about "Projection". What is it? Why do BP's do it? How does it affect NONs? And, how do we deal with it? In general, emotionally healthy people base their perceptions on facts. Projection is basing your perception of reality on feelings. Projection is a defense mechanism, operating unconsciously, in which what is emotionally unacceptable in the self is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others. Projection is denying one's own unpleasant traits, behaviors, or feelings by attributing them, often in an accusing way, to someone else. Commonly the projection is an exaggeration of something that has a basis in reality. For example, the borderline may accuse you of "hating" them when you just feel irritated. Sometimes the projection may come entirely from their imagination: for example, they accuse you of flirting with when you were just asking for directions to the shoe department. ~ Randi Kreger Some adults who enter into relationships with borderlines feel brainwashed by the BP's accusations and criticisms. The techniques of brainwashing are simple: isolate the victim, expose them to inconsistent messages, mix with sleep deprivation, add some form of abuse, get the person to doubt what they know and feel, keep them on their toes, wear them down, and stir well. ~ Elyce M. Benham, M.S."

Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 04:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Jerry Pepridge Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Stealing from people will see me with hundreds of enemies who can all contact people I may be near in game to assassinate me. I want to run the galaxy not flee for my life from it. ITT: Butthurt 33 year old neckbeard is paranoid of other neckbeards coming after him over internet spaceship game isk. Put the bong back in the cupboard son, weed was so 1980. Epic comeback. You suffer from BPD. So much in fact you find nurturing friendship hard and probably painful. Which is why you devote the energy you expel on the forums into making enemies. Its just easier to get the attention you long for by making people upset with you. You do that naturally because you never developed social skills. The truth is Jerry you don't have to live life that way. But you do have to try. You only get one life, if choose to waste it being miserable no one is being slighted from it but you.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 15:29:00 - [32] Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 15/06/2011 14:25:52 Roguehalo does have an irritating tendency to call scam. However, making ungrounded claims about peoples' underlying attitudes towards your religion and trying to broadcast RL personal details is definitely not a legitimate response. That this was nothing to do with religion can be seen in the fact that Roguehalo doesn't discriminate - he calls most people scammers. Well if anyone's feelings are being hurt they are welcome to avoid posting in the thread.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 15:33:00 - [33] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 15:36:32 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 03:07:56 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Thread cleaned of trolling and off-topic posts. You mean you cleaned the thread of those warning the honest and innocent of the high probability or near certainty that the OP is scamming? That is just very... wow. Granted, it got into off-topic, Out of Eve talk on a prejudicial subject that need not dominate these forums, but couldn't we have kept something of that to show how fly off the handle the OP is. (The OP the one who brought up the unneeded topic anyways.) Or are such warnings against CCP policy? Seriously, though, honest or not, the OP and his plan are a bit whack for investment. If this turns out to be legit I wonder if you will feel obliged to apologize for insulting me and trying to tarnish my reputation? Probably not... You confuse "fly off the handle" with "not obliged to endure harassment from teenagers". Im 33 not 13. And your not my kid. Im not your mammy or your pappy. You approach me as a man and insult my character i'm going to tell you precisely how I feel about it. This post and the others above illustrate "fly off the handle". I ran a bond a while back that I had two trolls in my thread accusing me of scamming for this, that, and the other reason. To handle that maturely one does not get mad and angry, start insulting, troll back, etc and so forth. One calmly ignores and moves on or addresses any legitimate complaint. You may not be 13, but you act like it. I'm in my late 20's and not a teenager, either. I did nothing harrasment-like in my post. I simply pointed out your clear instability and potential for scam. If this turns out to be legit, though we have no clear way of knowing - I don't know how many of your alts jumped in to invest - I will no feel obliged to apologize for issuing a clear warning on the appearance of scam in this thread. A warning is a warning meant to inform. Also, you've now confirmed that, scam or not, you don't seem level-headed and stable enough that I would want to invest in you. So no, I wouldn't feel like apologizing. So in other words you get a free pass to insult people and then have no obligation to take responsibility for it. Im not handling them how you would, because, i'm not you. I don't want you to invest in me. Go away. You've made your point and said your piece, so from this point on there is zero reason for us to have contact. And that goes for Roguehalo and Jerry as well. And yet I doubt either of you three are going anywhere. Because you aren't here to warn anyone. You're here to make sure something that you have no interest or want to ever have to compete against, fails.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 16:16:00 - [34] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 16:16:50 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 15/06/2011 14:25:52 Roguehalo does have an irritating tendency to call scam. However, making ungrounded claims about peoples' underlying attitudes towards your religion and trying to broadcast RL personal details is definitely not a legitimate response. That this was nothing to do with religion can be seen in the fact that Roguehalo doesn't discriminate - he calls most people scammers. Well if anyone's feelings are being hurt they are welcome to avoid posting in the thread. No. It's not a question of avoiding the response by not posting; that simply seeks to legitimise a type of response that is entirely unacceptable within the context of a game. Leave real life where it belongs - outside our virtual playground. No.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 16:19:00 - [35] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 16:20:00 Originally by: Roguehalo This thing is now dead in the water. Anymore activity in this thread now would be just picking at the bones. You're a legend in your mind Rogue. If only stating the investment is dead made it so. On the contrary its only begining. The first dividend payment should be going out with a day or two max, depending on how the sales go. My success will never under any circumstances be tied to what a bigot on a forum says, you can bet on that.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 16:40:00 - [36] "Actually, yes. Your actions were not just unacceptable from my perspective. They were also against the forum rules, so if you are not willing to leave real life where it belongs you will get banned sooner or later (as other people have been for doing the same thing)." You aren't a mod, they can do their job, they don't need you to tell people the forum rules. I'll worry about myself, you worry about yourself. As for the rules I can simply post he's a scammer and if you want proof contact me personally. Then I can point people to the information I choose to provide. So there ya go. No rules are broken and i'm still going to make my point.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Faith Clothos I don't know what is sadder, you, or that people would actually send you money. Both are pretty up there to be honest. I'd go with option three, people who have no interest in the investment lingering around the thread instead of doing something constructive with their time.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 17:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 17:56:12 Its not against the rules to give a player your email. Whatever is discussed in the email is no ones business but the concerned parties. That may suck for your particular outlook but that's how it is. Please get off your pulpit and go preach to someone who's interested in hearing it. Calling someone a contemptible specimen of society when you are on their thread throwing out accusations with no proof whatsoever, not even a coherent argument as to why you feel that way is like an acid induced trip through Wonderland. Where everything is backwards in relation to reality. And firstly isn't a word. Your opinion ---> (------------------------) My care level --> (------) And my care level is only at that point because deep down I don't want to be enemies with anyone. But if you want to include yourself in it, then it is what it is.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:00:00 - [39] Originally by: Faith Clothos Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 17:57:12 Its not against the rules to give a player your email. Whatever is discussed in the email is no ones business but the concerned parties. That may suck for your particular outlook but that's how it is. Please get off your pulpit and go preach to someone who's interested in hearing it. Calling someone a contemptible specimen of humanity when you are on their thread throwing out accusations with no proof whatsoever, not even a coherent argument as to why you feel that way is like an acid induced trip through Wonderland. Where everything is backwards in relation to reality. And firstly isn't a word. Your opinion ---> (------------------------) My care level --> (------) And my care level is only at that point because deep down I don't want to be enemies with anyone. But if you want to include yourself in it, then it is what it is. What happens to your enemies? I would say that you seem a bit psycho, to be honest. They usually suffer in misery as I succeed in my endeavors. I've never did a follow up because I don't much care.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:10:00 - [40] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 18:12:48 Originally by: Liberty Eternal So if people criticise you, that makes them your enemies? If your current "friends" have told you that your way of threatening people is acceptable, then they aren't really very good friends are they? What you're doing is pretty nasty - you're only getting the same criticism and humour that everyone else around here gets, the person who took it to the wrong level was you. Criticism is fine. Im more than willing to answer any questions regarding anything about my fund. But i'm cut from a different cloth when it comes to turning a cheek when struck. I'm more an eye for an eye kind of guy. On what earth do the people of these forums reside where the notion of your first word to a person comes in the form of an insult or besmirchment of character and that person should say thank you and ask for more. Come down to reality. Yes, I was particularly nasty. I'll apologize as soon as I get an apology.

Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 18:36:00 - [41] Originally by: Faith Clothos Originally by: Caliph Muhammed Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 18:12:48 Originally by: Liberty Eternal So if people criticise you, that makes them your enemies? If your current "friends" have told you that your way of threatening people is acceptable, then they aren't really very good friends are they? What you're doing is pretty nasty - you're only getting the same criticism and humour that everyone else around here gets, the person who took it to the wrong level was you. Criticism is fine. Im more than willing to answer any questions regarding anything about my fund. But i'm cut from a different cloth when it comes to turning a cheek when struck. I'm more an eye for an eye kind of guy. On what earth do the people of these forums reside where the notion of your first word to a person comes in the form of an insult or besmirchment of character and that person should say thank you and ask for more. Come down to reality. Yes, I was particularly nasty. I'll apologize as soon as I get an apology. You know that guy you don't like drinking with? The one that gets nasty and picks fights with everytone over nothing? be it the barkeep, the waitress, or some random dude looking at him the wrong way, he is always upset about something? The one that ruins nights and who you have half a feeling is going to stab someone over something stupid one of these days and who you wouldn't trust to give you the time, let alone lend money to? That guy is you. I view myself more as the sober guy who walks into a bar of drunks with full confidence if one of them should decide to pick a fight he's capable of leaving teeth on the floor. If that's psycho so be it, but it's who I am, and im not changing for anyone.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.06.15 20:08:00 - [42] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 20:15:13 Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 15/06/2011 20:08:04 Originally by: Honey Senpai Here are the issues with this buisness model: First it has a stock but no board of directors. This means that no one involved can see the inital investment of this. The 51% of stock may or may not be paid for at all. All of this could be down with a corp that has multiple people in it and can view the buying of the shares as a group. ((aka investment group)) All trades could bedone on behalf of the corporation and not on behalf of this individual. The investment isk would still have to have someone who could access it ((dangerous)). This person should be a third party who is already well known and respected in the world of eve ((aka not just some random guy)). This person should also be made to buy in at a resonible percentage so they make a profit that is constant and have less incentive to raid the fund. Until any of this is done the odds of this being anything less then a full scam is very low indeed. Your current model is based purely on trust and a fool and his isk will soon part. A board of directors means either I have people in the corp watching everything I do and potentially using it against me or it could mean they all have access to the wallet which means security is nil. The rest of what you say is essentially every offer on this board. Ive laid my plan out, im not including the "MD" elite aka board of directors aka trusted 3rd parties because they arent doing any of the work and it benefits me in no way. I have no reason to. I made the investment offer as low risk as possible. You can buy 1 share at 1000 isk and see if the dividends pay out or abstain completely. I'm not asking anyone on this board to give my ideas the OK. I ask the people who are interested. And they have an option which many have been most pleased to do. Others don't care to. And that's okay as well. I have zero interest in ever putting someone in charge of my fund, its investing goals or plans and definitely not my corp wallet. Plain and simple. The comparison of the fool and his money , keep investing in those billion ISK bonds , i'll let history record the results. I'm sure i'm going to put in the work to make an actual mutual fund work and have some schmo pretend by him sitting in the corp learning what i'm doing made the fund succeed. No, ill take the credit for myself and the blame for failure as well.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.19 21:50:00 - [43] Originally by: OllieNorth I hate to be this guy, but I have ISK with Caliph and I have been getting solid returns so far. Now, I have come nowhere near the point of breaking even on my investment, nor have I tried to withdraw my ISK, but it seems relatively legit so far. To Caliph, please ignore the flamebait. Seeing you overreact to these people does in fact make me nervous. Keep doing what you are doing and don't worry about the forum. You hate to be that guy? Brother if you want your money out you can have absolutely have it. 900 isk per share. Send them in and you don't have to feel "nervous" anymore.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.19 22:44:00 - [44] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 19/08/2011 22:48:36 Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 19/08/2011 22:46:38 Originally by: Esan Vartesa I havent invested in you, have no intention ever now or in the past and yet im sure you give great weight to my antiquated psychoanalyzation of you. Im sure you appreciate how I drew it from mass generalities that could be applied to anyone. Why thank you. I'll file that with the rest. I like how Bobby and Phaser INC the two most honest groups of business people in EVE carried themselves like me. O no they didn't they? They filled people's ears with sweet nothings and sodomized everyone. I don't take **, because I dont have to. When I get tired of trading, ill do exactly as I said I would in regards to the fund then ill start killing people for **s and giggles.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.20 00:14:00 - [45] Originally by: Callean Drevus Originally by: Caliph Muhammed I don't take chit, because I dont have to. You certainly don't, but if you intend on making people believe in you this is not the way to go. As I pointed out in another thread, inflamed replies do nothing to help further trust and respect. Before a man speaks it is always safe to assume that he is a fool. After he speaks, it is seldom necessary to assume it. Im still trying to figure out why people whom I have no connection with nor have any of their money are still in my thread speaking down to me with all this emotional bullchit.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.20 01:22:00 - [46] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 20/08/2011 01:28:07 Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 20/08/2011 01:04:51 Edited by: RAW23 on 20/08/2011 01:04:23 Originally by: Caliph Muhammed I like how Bobby and Phaser INC the two most honest groups of business people in EVE carried themselves like me. Oh, no they didn't did they? They filled people's ears with sweet nothings and then sodomized everyone. Phaser Inc got nowhere at all on MD. They were laughed out of town from the start. Their investors came from spamming local in-game. Your use of Bobby as an example is somewhat ironic though. He was, indeed, very smooth but he was also quite open about the satisfaction he gained not just from being a PvP pirate but from piratical behaviour. Many people were willing to overlook the fact that he stated repeatedly that it was only practical benefits that kept him honest rather than an unwillingness to cause harm to other people (ingame ofc). What makes your behaviour worrying from an investor perspective is related but slightly different. It is that someone who has so little regard for social conventions and rules put in place to avoid genuine harm coming to people (such as not bringing RL details into the game just because someone ****ed you off ingame), who rages easily in a way that seems to take pleasure in a certain type of aggression who promises retribution against those who annoy him, and who generally deals with people so poorly on a social level, is not the kind of person who one can be confident in relying on not to gratify himself by taking advantage of a position of trust at the expense of others. It is certainly not true that all people who behave in this way will also be willing to act dishonestly but given how little people know of the true motivations of others in an MMO it is the type of thing one should take into account when forming a risk assessment. Ironically, if you weren't posting in my thread about a fund you have zero interest or isk tied up in the behavior you "worry" about wouldn't be present.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.20 15:05:00 - [47] Confirming 45000 shares recieved from Ollienorth and 45,000,000 was refunded at 2011.08.20 15:03.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.22 09:18:00 - [48] Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 22/08/2011 09:20:57 I guess you guys figure if you repeat the same bullchit over and over you'll make it happen. Well sirs, lets have a reality check. So far ive lived up to my commitments, just got a new investor today, making some honestly earned iskies and putting away a good amount in savings. And im another day closer to eliting all the ewar & core certs. For me its looking good. Smooches! Psssst..... You're irrelevant.
Caliph Muhammed Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service	Posted - 2011.08.23 21:54:00 - [49] Let me get through this div period and ill get up with you guys. Its been a little hectic lately and before I take on more guys i'd like to be less busy. My investors, save for one, have been with me a few divs now and I feel less stressed with people who have already started making money. With new guys who may or may not be coming in during a slower market there is more pressure. I'd also like to point out that I do my best to bring in as big of a return as possible but do not look at a jump in dividends as a guarenteed trend of exponentially bigger payouts. It's possible to gain 20% in the fund size and bring in a dividend 50-75% less than it was previous. As I get paid through commision and my investment as well, im always after the biggest margin but sometimes the margin isn't to be had. Your investment is sound with me that I can assure you but be prepared for bumps in the market along the way. If you are comfortable with long term investments, the fund is for you. If your looking for guarenteed ever increasing profits and quick ones at that, the fund isn't. The dividends will come as fast as I can do but there is no guarenteed timeframe. Offering one will only lead to disappointment for the investors and burnout for your humble daytrader. And one more thing. I've been trading since I first started playing EVE, and truth be told in other games and such long before. There is however always risk in investment. Not from a human nature point of view, I will not rip you off, but the market can make us money or lose us money.

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